Emma Alberici reported this story on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 08:12:00
TONY EASTLEY: A former senior executive at Italy's biggest bank says the European debt crisis is the result of a rotten culture in the banks that encourages excessive risk taking.
Jonathan Sugarman was the head of risk management at the Dublin office of Italy's UniCredit.
In his first interview since leaving the bank, he told the ABC's Foreign Correspondent program that he was forced to resign after his chief executive consistently asked him to break the law.
Here's Europe correspondent Emma Alberici
EMMA ALBERICI: It was 2007 when The New York Times dubbed Dublin the wild west of European finance.
By then, all the biggest banks in Europe had moved their headquarters to the Irish Financial Services Centre, lured by the lowest corporate tax rates in the English speaking world. Foreign banks found something else attractive about the place too - it had developed a reputation for light touch regulation
Jonathan Sugarman was working for a German bank in Dublin when he was head hunted to run risk management at UniCredit's Dublin office. The Italian bank had a $50 billion operation in Ireland.
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: As a bank we have a license to operate as a bank which is very much like a driving license , it says this is the speed you can go, this is what you can do and you have to operate within these limits. And it was my job to make sure that that was done every day.
EMMA ALBERICI: Risk managers are required by law to keep assets and cash in reserve equivalent to 90 per cent of the bank's liabilities. The rules are clear, the bank could on occasion drop to 89 per cent but any lower than that and a report must be filed with the regulator.
But within months of his arrival Jonathan Sugarman noticed that UniCredit Dublin had cover of just 70 per cent, 20 times less than what was allowed. For six weeks his chief executive kept telling him not to worry. But he was worried, so he resigned.
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: We were breaking the law and it was my name on the reports day in day out. Under the eyes of the law, I'm the person responsible to make sure that we kept within our speed limit and we went way beyond our speed limit. And the law was very clear, I could face five years in prison for doing that and I just didn't want to go to prison.
EMMA ALBERICI: How certain are you that UniCredit broke the law while you were there?
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: A hundred per cent certain. To use the Irish expression, "to be sure, to be sure". That is why I brought in this London based IT company. Whereas the permissible deviation was 1 per cent, they rang me up one evening soon after they tied in to our systems, linked in to our systems, and said your breach is actually 40 per cent.
EMMA ALBERICI: Four, zero?
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: Four, zero.
EMMA ALBERICI: Twelve months after Jonathan Sugarman told the regulator that his bank in Dublin was running low on cash, the entire Irish banking system was on its knees begging for a bailout. Five banks asked for 50 billion euros just to keep their doors open.
Last year Irish MP David Norris raised the UniCredit matter in the Irish parliament.
DAVID NORRIS: This is a grossly serious matter and has been reported to the financial regulator. A man has lost his job as a result, he honourably resigned. And the degree of breach was 40 times the accepted margin. This is a disaster.
EMMA ALBERICI: Even after this, the regulator failed to act. In a letter to the ABC, the Central Bank said it was still examining allegations first brought to it by Jonathan Sugarman four years ago
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: I left the bank's offices, I walked down to the regulator's office, I wasn't going to leave it to anyone to deliver it but myself, and nothing happens. That is like walking in to a police station with a knife with blood on it and saying I've just killed someone and you expect the police to say well where's the body? Where's the person? What have you done? And they just say, fine, just don't do it again. And that left me dumbfounded.
EMMA ALBERICI: UniCredit posted a record third quarter loss overnight of $15 billion.
The Italian government's debt problems are weighing heavily on the country's biggest bank
This is Emma Alberici reporting for AM
TONY EASTLEY: The full report on that story can be seen on Foreign Correspondent tonight on ABC1 at 8 o'clock.
TONY EASTLEY: A former senior executive at Italy's biggest bank says the European debt crisis is the result of a rotten culture in the banks that encourages excessive risk taking.
Jonathan Sugarman was the head of risk management at the Dublin office of Italy's UniCredit.
In his first interview since leaving the bank, he told the ABC's Foreign Correspondent program that he was forced to resign after his chief executive consistently asked him to break the law.
Here's Europe correspondent Emma Alberici
EMMA ALBERICI: It was 2007 when The New York Times dubbed Dublin the wild west of European finance.
By then, all the biggest banks in Europe had moved their headquarters to the Irish Financial Services Centre, lured by the lowest corporate tax rates in the English speaking world. Foreign banks found something else attractive about the place too - it had developed a reputation for light touch regulation
Jonathan Sugarman was working for a German bank in Dublin when he was head hunted to run risk management at UniCredit's Dublin office. The Italian bank had a $50 billion operation in Ireland.
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: As a bank we have a license to operate as a bank which is very much like a driving license , it says this is the speed you can go, this is what you can do and you have to operate within these limits. And it was my job to make sure that that was done every day.
EMMA ALBERICI: Risk managers are required by law to keep assets and cash in reserve equivalent to 90 per cent of the bank's liabilities. The rules are clear, the bank could on occasion drop to 89 per cent but any lower than that and a report must be filed with the regulator.
But within months of his arrival Jonathan Sugarman noticed that UniCredit Dublin had cover of just 70 per cent, 20 times less than what was allowed. For six weeks his chief executive kept telling him not to worry. But he was worried, so he resigned.
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: We were breaking the law and it was my name on the reports day in day out. Under the eyes of the law, I'm the person responsible to make sure that we kept within our speed limit and we went way beyond our speed limit. And the law was very clear, I could face five years in prison for doing that and I just didn't want to go to prison.
EMMA ALBERICI: How certain are you that UniCredit broke the law while you were there?
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: A hundred per cent certain. To use the Irish expression, "to be sure, to be sure". That is why I brought in this London based IT company. Whereas the permissible deviation was 1 per cent, they rang me up one evening soon after they tied in to our systems, linked in to our systems, and said your breach is actually 40 per cent.
EMMA ALBERICI: Four, zero?
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: Four, zero.
EMMA ALBERICI: Twelve months after Jonathan Sugarman told the regulator that his bank in Dublin was running low on cash, the entire Irish banking system was on its knees begging for a bailout. Five banks asked for 50 billion euros just to keep their doors open.
Last year Irish MP David Norris raised the UniCredit matter in the Irish parliament.
DAVID NORRIS: This is a grossly serious matter and has been reported to the financial regulator. A man has lost his job as a result, he honourably resigned. And the degree of breach was 40 times the accepted margin. This is a disaster.
EMMA ALBERICI: Even after this, the regulator failed to act. In a letter to the ABC, the Central Bank said it was still examining allegations first brought to it by Jonathan Sugarman four years ago
JONATHAN SUGARMAN: I left the bank's offices, I walked down to the regulator's office, I wasn't going to leave it to anyone to deliver it but myself, and nothing happens. That is like walking in to a police station with a knife with blood on it and saying I've just killed someone and you expect the police to say well where's the body? Where's the person? What have you done? And they just say, fine, just don't do it again. And that left me dumbfounded.
EMMA ALBERICI: UniCredit posted a record third quarter loss overnight of $15 billion.
The Italian government's debt problems are weighing heavily on the country's biggest bank
This is Emma Alberici reporting for AM
TONY EASTLEY: The full report on that story can be seen on Foreign Correspondent tonight on ABC1 at 8 o'clock.
To listen to the interview on ABC AM, please click here:
To read more about my experiences at UniCredit Ireland, including the parliamentary debates about it, please visit my WhistleblowerIRL blog at:
